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	<title>Comments on: Bonhoeffer and Gatto on Education</title>
	<link>http://www.diaryof1.com/2007/09/15/bonhoeffer-and-gatto-on-education/</link>
	<description>Seeking Wisdom, Washing Dishes</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 21:01:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: &#160; German Homeschooling Ban Comes to Blog Talk Radio Tomorrow!</title>
		<link>http://www.diaryof1.com/2007/09/15/bonhoeffer-and-gatto-on-education/#comment-22828</link>
		<dc:creator>&#160; German Homeschooling Ban Comes to Blog Talk Radio Tomorrow!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jul 2008 20:01:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.diaryof1.com/2007/09/15/bonhoeffer-and-gatto-on-education/#comment-22828</guid>
		<description>[...] you&#8217;re following the crisis in Germany regarding that country&#8217;s ban on homeschooling, you may be interested in tuning in tomorrow to the new BlogTalkRadio Homeschool Show, live at 1 [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] you&#8217;re following the crisis in Germany regarding that country&#8217;s ban on homeschooling, you may be interested in tuning in tomorrow to the new BlogTalkRadio Homeschool Show, live at 1 [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Jen</title>
		<link>http://www.diaryof1.com/2007/09/15/bonhoeffer-and-gatto-on-education/#comment-881</link>
		<dc:creator>Jen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Sep 2007 14:57:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.diaryof1.com/2007/09/15/bonhoeffer-and-gatto-on-education/#comment-881</guid>
		<description>Lydia, I agree with you, it's important to see the origins of the system to really understand clearly what's happening today.

Dana, I don't mind the link a bit! Thank you, that shows exactly what Bonhoeffer was talking about. And highlights what we Americans need to be on guard against today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lydia, I agree with you, it&#8217;s important to see the origins of the system to really understand clearly what&#8217;s happening today.</p>
<p>Dana, I don&#8217;t mind the link a bit! Thank you, that shows exactly what Bonhoeffer was talking about. And highlights what we Americans need to be on guard against today.</p>
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		<title>By: Dana</title>
		<link>http://www.diaryof1.com/2007/09/15/bonhoeffer-and-gatto-on-education/#comment-873</link>
		<dc:creator>Dana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Sep 2007 07:14:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.diaryof1.com/2007/09/15/bonhoeffer-and-gatto-on-education/#comment-873</guid>
		<description>If you don't mind the link to an old entry of mine, this quote from the Auschwitz trials in Frankfurt seems relevant:

Mr. Chairman
I would like to explain something
Every third word in our school time
dealt with those
who were guilty of all
and that must be eradicated
It was hammered into us
that this was the best
for our own people
In the Fuehrer-schools we learned above all
to accept everything silently
When someone asked something else
then it was said
What was done was done according to the law
It helps nothing
that the laws are different today
They said to us
Your job is to learn
You need schooling more than bread
Mr. Chairman
Thinking was taken from us
That was done for us by others
(The accused laugh in agreement)

&lt;a href="http://gottsegnet.blogspot.com/2007/01/holocaust-day.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;Holocaust Day&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you don&#8217;t mind the link to an old entry of mine, this quote from the Auschwitz trials in Frankfurt seems relevant:</p>
<p>Mr. Chairman<br />
I would like to explain something<br />
Every third word in our school time<br />
dealt with those<br />
who were guilty of all<br />
and that must be eradicated<br />
It was hammered into us<br />
that this was the best<br />
for our own people<br />
In the Fuehrer-schools we learned above all<br />
to accept everything silently<br />
When someone asked something else<br />
then it was said<br />
What was done was done according to the law<br />
It helps nothing<br />
that the laws are different today<br />
They said to us<br />
Your job is to learn<br />
You need schooling more than bread<br />
Mr. Chairman<br />
Thinking was taken from us<br />
That was done for us by others<br />
(The accused laugh in agreement)</p>
<p><a href="http://gottsegnet.blogspot.com/2007/01/holocaust-day.html" rel="nofollow">Holocaust Day</a></p>
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		<title>By: Lydia</title>
		<link>http://www.diaryof1.com/2007/09/15/bonhoeffer-and-gatto-on-education/#comment-865</link>
		<dc:creator>Lydia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Sep 2007 02:58:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.diaryof1.com/2007/09/15/bonhoeffer-and-gatto-on-education/#comment-865</guid>
		<description>This was very interesting to read -- it's funny to see it so clearly broken down like that. When you get back to the basics, and the origin of the system, it makes all the fancy lovey democratic cloud that surrounds the system now look pretty ridiculous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This was very interesting to read &#8212; it&#8217;s funny to see it so clearly broken down like that. When you get back to the basics, and the origin of the system, it makes all the fancy lovey democratic cloud that surrounds the system now look pretty ridiculous.</p>
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		<title>By: Jen</title>
		<link>http://www.diaryof1.com/2007/09/15/bonhoeffer-and-gatto-on-education/#comment-860</link>
		<dc:creator>Jen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Sep 2007 18:05:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.diaryof1.com/2007/09/15/bonhoeffer-and-gatto-on-education/#comment-860</guid>
		<description>Thanks Renae and Mrs. Darling for your comments. As you both noted, America may be close on the heels of the German model, as we have been from the very beginning of our modern compulsory education.

Another interesting excerpt from the Gatto essay I linked to above:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Kindergarten was created to be a way to break the influence of mothers on their children. I note with interest the growth of daycare in the US and the repeated urgings to extend school downward to include 4-year-olds. The movement toward state socialism is not some historical curiosity but a powerful dynamic force in the world around us.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Our government schooling system is destructive to the family. The history of the insitution, as so well explained in Gatto's essay, makes it clear that the aims were never to build up the family or the individual, but the state.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Renae and Mrs. Darling for your comments. As you both noted, America may be close on the heels of the German model, as we have been from the very beginning of our modern compulsory education.</p>
<p>Another interesting excerpt from the Gatto essay I linked to above:</p>
<blockquote><p>Kindergarten was created to be a way to break the influence of mothers on their children. I note with interest the growth of daycare in the US and the repeated urgings to extend school downward to include 4-year-olds. The movement toward state socialism is not some historical curiosity but a powerful dynamic force in the world around us.</p></blockquote>
<p>Our government schooling system is destructive to the family. The history of the insitution, as so well explained in Gatto&#8217;s essay, makes it clear that the aims were never to build up the family or the individual, but the state.</p>
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		<title>By: mrs darling</title>
		<link>http://www.diaryof1.com/2007/09/15/bonhoeffer-and-gatto-on-education/#comment-855</link>
		<dc:creator>mrs darling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Sep 2007 04:21:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.diaryof1.com/2007/09/15/bonhoeffer-and-gatto-on-education/#comment-855</guid>
		<description>Yep America is coming to that. I really think so. Our state had a petition before the courts last spring asking that all homeschoolers and private school teachers have state degrees. If the parents didnt have a state teaching degree their children had to go to public school. Fortunately there were not enough votes to get it on the ballet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep America is coming to that. I really think so. Our state had a petition before the courts last spring asking that all homeschoolers and private school teachers have state degrees. If the parents didnt have a state teaching degree their children had to go to public school. Fortunately there were not enough votes to get it on the ballet.</p>
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		<title>By: Renae</title>
		<link>http://www.diaryof1.com/2007/09/15/bonhoeffer-and-gatto-on-education/#comment-849</link>
		<dc:creator>Renae</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Sep 2007 04:55:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.diaryof1.com/2007/09/15/bonhoeffer-and-gatto-on-education/#comment-849</guid>
		<description>As I was reading this well written post, I couldn't help but think, we are beginning to see these ideas here in America. I am constantly amazed by the questions I receive that imply the state is more qualified to educate my children than I am. God help us to maintain our liberty and fight for those who need it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I was reading this well written post, I couldn&#8217;t help but think, we are beginning to see these ideas here in America. I am constantly amazed by the questions I receive that imply the state is more qualified to educate my children than I am. God help us to maintain our liberty and fight for those who need it!</p>
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		<title>By: Jen</title>
		<link>http://www.diaryof1.com/2007/09/15/bonhoeffer-and-gatto-on-education/#comment-847</link>
		<dc:creator>Jen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Sep 2007 00:31:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.diaryof1.com/2007/09/15/bonhoeffer-and-gatto-on-education/#comment-847</guid>
		<description>Rina, thanks for the insight. It's strange - it seems that the more the German state fails in its education system, the tighter the vise-grip they clamp down on families. The German state is not recognizing its failure and is not allowing parents to exercise their inherent - &lt;em&gt;and prior&lt;/em&gt; - rights in the education of their own children. This is frightening.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rina, thanks for the insight. It&#8217;s strange - it seems that the more the German state fails in its education system, the tighter the vise-grip they clamp down on families. The German state is not recognizing its failure and is not allowing parents to exercise their inherent - <em>and prior</em> - rights in the education of their own children. This is frightening.</p>
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		<title>By: Rina Groeneveld</title>
		<link>http://www.diaryof1.com/2007/09/15/bonhoeffer-and-gatto-on-education/#comment-838</link>
		<dc:creator>Rina Groeneveld</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Sep 2007 06:22:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.diaryof1.com/2007/09/15/bonhoeffer-and-gatto-on-education/#comment-838</guid>
		<description>That last paragraph is so true of Germany. According to the German Constitutional Court, the parents and the state have an equal mandate to educate (or bring up - the word "Erziehung" means both and is often used interchangeably in this sense) children. However in situations where the state is failing in its educational mandate, in the case of the individual child whose educational or emotional needs are not being met, or in general, the parents are not allowed to pick up the slack. At the same time there are calls for compulsory schooling to start at an earlier age and to be a full-day affair (for everyone of course) to make up for those families in which the parents who are not raising their children "properly".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That last paragraph is so true of Germany. According to the German Constitutional Court, the parents and the state have an equal mandate to educate (or bring up - the word &#8220;Erziehung&#8221; means both and is often used interchangeably in this sense) children. However in situations where the state is failing in its educational mandate, in the case of the individual child whose educational or emotional needs are not being met, or in general, the parents are not allowed to pick up the slack. At the same time there are calls for compulsory schooling to start at an earlier age and to be a full-day affair (for everyone of course) to make up for those families in which the parents who are not raising their children &#8220;properly&#8221;.</p>
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